I’m done here

I went to the fem 08 conference and it clarified a few things for me.

Things have changed for me, I’m thinking differently and I’m being more honest, I’m listening more to people who aren’t me. I’m interested in getting my fingers dirty, in doing more practical offline activism.

I hate the thought of being referred to as a “radfem” because I think by and large the internet “radfem” community is becoming increasingly poisonous and paranoid, and increasingly single issue. While obviously I think the issues of porn, prostitution and rape are really important they are not the only thing that feminism needs to engage with and actually they are not something I wish to talk about all the time because actually I find them retraumatizing, I have wounds that are not going to heal if I keep uncovering them in settings that are not conducive to healing.

I also don’t want to be associated with any of the hypocritical narrow minded savagery that is clearly a complete failure to dismantle or even critique patriarchal attitudes.

I have seen the internet “radfem” community completely welcome people, make them feel, safe, suported, listened to and the when those people step out of line I have seen those people chewed up and spat out, ostracised and ignored, and I can see it happening again. Right now there are two bloggers who I am pretty sure this is going to happen to and I don’t want to be around when it happens.

recently I got called a a pro-porn, pro-bdsm, pro-trans, troll. (its the second to last comment) because I had the audacity to disagree and try to discuss things with certain “radfems”

I recently got kicked of a google group to organise a feminist gathering because one person didn’t like my comments on somebody else’s blog, that had nothing at all to do with them even though the blog from th egroup claims that There is no hierarchy within the group.

I’m really uncomfortable with the idea that all radical feminists are supposed to believe the same thing and if they don’t they get excluded, there was no discussion of my politics before I was kicked of the list and I wasn’t even informed that it had happened.

then when I expressed a wish to still go to the meeting but that it would need to be wheelchair accessible i was informed that the venues was already booked and it wasn’t known if it was wheelchair accessible. If we are trying to undo opressions and be as acsesable as posible shouldnt we make sure that somewhere is acseable before we choose it?

I’m also really uncomfortable that there are other women who would really like to go to the gathering but who know they wouldnt be welcome because they too are seen as the wrong sort of feminst.

And it seems some of those purer than thou radfems want to drag up some age old vindictive vile shit that they knew deeply hurt people who were part of that comunity

I dont think its up to any of us to police who and who isnt “feminist enough” so I want no part of this,

I’m going to stop blogging as nectarine, I am elswhere on the internet, if you want to know where send me an email on nectarine99@googlemail.com and I’ll send you the link

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40 Responses to “I’m done here”

  1. Oh dear, how childish. I informed you that I had contacted the venue and indeed it is wheelchair accessible, and therefore should not pose a problem for you, I believe?

    You were a member of the group when we were discussing venues, and if wheelchair accessibility was going to be an issue, you should have said so then, instead of doing nothing, letting other people do all the work, and then complaining because we are not mind-readers.

    As you know I had doubts about allowing you in the group in the first place, because of your over-friendliness with pro-porners and people who don’t mind calling all radical feminists transphobic because they dare to organise a women-only event. As usual, I find I should have trusted my instincts.

    If you were so upset with me, then why volunteer to be a contributor on the At the Root blog, which would mean unavoidably having dealings with me?

    Anyway, enjoy your new blog.

  2. I agree Nectarine, the online ‘rad fem’ community is not welcoming, and there a few nasty feminists who get involved in blog wars and insult women, hence the reason for organising a radical feminist gathering so women can meet face to face and make friends.

    Charlie x

  3. No one is entitled to be protected forever from hurt feelings. That is a child-like expectation.

  4. Debs, you like pro-porn and prostitution stuff too. Didn’t you list the Velvet Underground and Joy Division as some of your favourite bands at one point? Because the Velvet Underground were named after the sexual underground of the 60s, and Joy Division were named after the prostitution wing of a concentration camp.

    I mean, I like the bands, but considering your high standards, you certainly shouldn’t. And weren’t you planning to take your son to the Summer Gathering, while making it women-only?

    Neither of these are things I would criticise you for, but they are certainly things you would criticise people for. Maybe you should live up to your own standards.

  5. im lost – totally. nectarine, please invite me to read your other blog – you have my email address. what is this about scum? why the fuck are people having a go at nectarine? i remember nectarine asking about wheelchair accessibility on the list, its wheelchair accessible but now she isnt welcome? why was she removed from the group?

  6. Zenobia, I would never ever criticise a woman for taking her 2 year old son to a women only gathering, and a choosing which bands you listen to based on their names is completely fucking stupid.

  7. marytracy9 Says:

    nectarine, I’m pretty sure everyone in Radfem Sisters wants you back. We all have disagreements and we all get angry, but then we all make up.

    So let’s keep quiet until the make up is done.

  8. Nectarine, I’d be sad to see you stop blogging as ‘Nectarine’. Do you reckon it might be worth having this out? You wouldn’t be doing it on your own.

    Look, as Charlie said above, it is a few individual women who are responsible for forming and/or maintaining so called friendship groups through which misinformation is sometimes shared with the result of damaging the reputation of other women. I wouldn’t like to make any speculations regarding the underlying intentions of such persons, but there is no question about the damage caused – intentional or not.

    As someone who has been the target of one woman who for several months has bullied me online through various means as well as using several online forums and personal contacts to undermine the work that I do and the work of organisations I associte with, and give people I have not yet met a poor impression of me; I am quite keen to get all this out into the open, look at it and see how we can work at our shortcomings and form communities based on interactions that are sound and transparent.

    It is nobody’s responsibility to point out to other people where they’ve gone wrong, but when we bow out we are leaving the bulllies to run riot. I’ve bowed out too many times and have regretted it. I really value our relationship and the things you’ve taught me and I do hope you’ll stick around.

  9. Yes, you’re right, Zenobia, my entire criticism of Feministing was that their name was quite close to ‘fisting’ and I have no other problems with the site at all. Fuck’s sake.

  10. Ok, I never thought I would be doing this, but here it goes. While we are arguing about itsy bitsy differences in opinion, here’s what the rest of the world thinks of feminists:

    “All you feminists need is a good deep dicking”

    “All this talk about rape culture stops women being responsible for themselves”

    “Feminists oppress white men”

    “You obviously have a psychiatric/anger problem”

    “I bet you are fat and ugly”

    “You just don’t like sex so you want to spoil it for everyone else”

    All courtesy of the Anti-Feminist Bingo cards. And let’s not forget about the “feminazi” “hairy” “dyke” “fat lesbo” “bra burner” etc, etc, etc.

    You want an enemy? THAT’S THE ENEMY!!! We are all on the same side!

  11. zenobia, dont be a stirrer. its playground.

    can we sort this out without the sniping?

  12. pisaquaririse Says:

    “recently I got called a a pro-porn, pro-bdsm, pro-trans, troll…because I had the audacity to disagree and try to discuss things with certain “radfems””

    The person who called you that, Nectarine, said she did not speak for the entire radfem community before she made that statement and she is right: I did not consider you a troll for your comments on that thread and still don’t. I would not have engaged you if I thought that (and I believe I said as much there).

    I think disagreements and differences can expand and improve a movement so long as they are handled respectfully. “Respectfully” being the operative, relative word. The internet makes us all a little 2-D so it’s an uphill battle. That’s why such a gathering has so much potential.
    I wish so much I could go! I do think the event would benefit with your voice. But that of course is your choice.
    Do what makes you happy.

  13. Pisaquaririse, I agree that ‘disagreements and differences’ can be positive when they form part of a dialogue where women act respectfully towards each other. This doesn’t just involve what we say ourselves but how we react (or don’t) when what somebody else is saying/doing is less than respectful.

    I followed the link above and read the post and comments in question. Nectarine was called ‘pro-porn, pro-bdsm, pro-trans, troll’ on your blog by Stormy. First, the comment was published on your blog and forms part of the content of your blog. Second, when I read the comments yesterday there were no objections to Stormy calling Nectarine a ‘pro-porn, pro-bdsm, pro-trans, troll’. For these reasons, I do think that the comment spoke not just for Stormy, but for you and any other person who commented on that post, read the insult and raised no objection to it.

  14. Zenobia Says:

    I’m not stirring, V, I’m asking Debs some pretty valid questions, considering the standard she holds everyone else to.

    Debs, I know that wasn’t your only criticism of Feministing, you have some pretty valid ones too. Still, don’t you think that was a little un-necessarily triggering for people who don’t have a one-track mind?

    Also, if names don’t count, what about songs and lyrics? Like Venus in Furs, ‘Whiplash girlchild in the dark’, would you object to that?

    Oh, and a question for the gender abolitionists here. You’re on the internet, you could have any name you want. Why do some of you pick such feminine ones?

  15. pisaquaririse Says:

    I understand what you are saying Aranxata. I have yet to fully grasp how to handle all the comments as I allow dissenting opinion on my blog amongst whatever group of people and, usually, that means a lot of sub-convos. If someone addresses me or my blog post I will respond but commenter to commenter is not something I’ve fully fleshed out.

    I cannot agree with the idea that if it’s said on my blog and I publish it that it is speaking for me and any other commenter besides the commenter who says it (<don’t you find that a bit much? Especially with how complicated and long a thread can get?).
    Stormy said, specifically, that she was speaking just for herself and I went on to validate that by referring to nectarine’s involvement in the feminist blogosphere. I can see in hindsight I could have been clearer in letting her know she was not a troll.

    I did not know at the time that comment was made if nectarine was pro or anti any of those topics Stormy claimed. There are some very extensive histories between different people on the internet and being accountable for all the ways those come to roost seems an impossible endeavor. If you managed a blog and had success with that then you have my envy.

  16. zenobia – ive not really had anything to do with you in the past, beyond linking to mindthegap and reading there. i really cannot be arsed with spatting like im back in a school playground, i dont have the time or the energy for it. i already know what you think of me, that outside of some stereotype youve imagined *i do not exist*. maybe thats fixable, maybe not. it depends really on whether youre interested in communication, or whether youd prefer to score mean girl points.

    take your spitting out “gender abolitionists” just there, its clear you dont think we have any right to examine the concept, the politics, of gender, or to decide what place it should have in our lives, our future. and then youre mocking women who choose to use names that what, you have decided should only belong to those who embrace femininity?

    im not sure whether youre being baity because youre defensive of a mate, or whether youre just itching for a fight. could you clarify please?

  17. Pisaquaririse, I could have worded that better. You are right. Of course, other people’s comments on your blog do not speak for you.

    If I were to re-word it, I’d say that comments we publish on our blogs say something about what we deem acceptable and that the same applies to commenters who don’t raise objections.

  18. Zenobia, you say that the questions you pose to Debs are valid. They may be. That would depend on what it is that you are trying to achieve. Like V, I wonder whether you perhaps could make that clear.

  19. Zenobia Says:

    V – I don’t think anything of you to be honest, I wasn’t even aware of you before your comment at Cruella’s, which was a little out of the blue to be honest. I’ve got absolutely nothing against you. In fact, all I know is you’re a friend of Nectarine’s, which means you’re probably cool. And by the way, I never called her disgusting or character-assassinated anyone on the MTG blog either, I called her out on a couple of racist and classist comments and that’s it.

    I don’t see where I said you have no right to examine gender issues from a gender abolitionist’s position either, in fact I’m just rather struck that transwomen always get lots of crap from people who say they don’t have a gender, when they obviously do – not a problem, because no one lives in a vacuum.

    If my comments are a little snippy, it’s because I’m being defensive of a mate, definitely, and Debs pissed me off massively. She’s the one calling a disabled woman childish for wanting disabled access to a venue.

  20. Zenobia Says:

    V – are you pissed off because I said that 99.9% of UK feminist bloggers are white and middle class? What I meant there is that there’s an advantage, if you want to become a prominent blogger, in being white and middle-class. I’m aware that working class and underclass bloggers exist, obviously, I mean I’m near as dammit working class myself, I live in a working class area and work as a secretary. If anything, I was complaining that they aren’t more in evidence, because white, middle-class bloggers need to be called out on their shit sometimes, and I don’t see that happening in the UK blogosphere the way it does a little in the US one.

    Obviously, I didn’t mean to imply you don’t exist or working class and underclass people don’t exist. I mean, sheesh, I’m a marxist for fuck’s sake.

  21. Zenobia – yeh thats whats got to me – that i feel you’re misrepresenting uk feminists/feminism, and especially radical feminists/feminism, by dismissing us/it as “99.999% white and middle class” without bothering to check how true that statement is – and saying that so dismissively makes me feel like you arent acknowledging those of us who fall outside of that. Its a dismissive tactic ive come across so many times, usually from male leftists of various stripes, used to dismiss women’s organising around issues that especially affect women. I think the thing is – youre using it to attack those who you think are white and middle class, but in reality its dismissive of the rest of us and our part. By focussing on that (in my opinion vastly overstated) group, even just as an attack, you are basically not focussing, or at least not acknowledging, the rest – you make us invisible – and when you use such an attack to dismiss all feminism or radical feminism, by (and without any evidence or case to back that up) sweepingly calling it all or majority white and middle class, then you damage us who arent white and/or middle class too. it also makes me think – well are you saying we’re white and/or middle class by proxy, that despite us not actually being white and/or middle class that our support of feminism is us identifying as white and/or middle class anyway and so we should also be ignored? not that im down with just ignoring those feminists wo do fit that description, anyway, but it seems like those who dont just end up as collateral damage. also – women’s class and race status is not so simple – i would say particularly for class, womens status is often precarious. there’s a real gap in traditional class analysis as far as women are concerned – a woman who has no income of her own and stays at home to raise children etc is considered the same class status as her income-d partner, when they obviously do not have the same status. but this is getting into something else now.

    i dont think you get more working class or other-than-white feminists to stand up and be counted if the more affluent and privileged members are under constant attack. im scared a lot of the time to say anything at all, to be honest with you – “if the educated and well spoken women can be torn up so easily what the fuck is gonna happen to me”, is where i usually end up. i think, there is taking something someone says and making a criticism, offering an alternative viewpoint, showing what is wrong with the one originially expressed – thats all good, positive stuff i think – and then there’s saying, oh fuck them all, theyre all *insert stereotype here*, with no chance to work stuff out. i see you doing the latter, a lot, which isnt useful to those of us who are on the ‘margins’ any more than it is to those in the spotlight – its not giving us any pointers or explanations or solidarity, its not even moving the spotlight, its just tearing someone else down.

    i get that youre snippy in this discussion right here because nectarine is your mate, i get that reaction totally. but i am fed up of seeing you write us all off, it makes me feel like you think youre better than the rest of us and always always right, its infuriating. i dont want to be on shitty terms with you at all, but i cant bear being patronised and ignored like that. if we can draw a line right here and try and move forward actually listening to each other – all of us – that would be grand.

  22. and i apologise for the stupid long post..

  23. pisaquaririse Says:

    “I’d say that comments we publish on our blogs say something about what we deem acceptable and that the same applies to commenters who don’t raise objections.”

    I would agree with this on a generic level. I’ve been rather loose about commenters on my blog and tend to go a little more lenient for those I have known positively on the ‘sphere b/c there is a trust there. Doesn’t mean they won’t mess up (how I define “mess up”) or that I will catch everything. As I likely haven’t.
    As for objecting I only feel comfortable doing that if I feel the person is being blatantly rude with no ground for their claims. Sometimes
    said claims are referencing something I have no idea about. In those times I feel I can only step in if I feel *the way* they made their claims (not the substance) was poorly handled. I.e. Right now there is a discussion on my blog about trans and intersex persons and the specifics of it are not things I am familiar with. So I am simply monitoring the way they speak to each other as that is all I can speak to.

    Something I have begun to do, and I hope it works, is privately e-mail someone if I feel they have broached a topic rudely or personally in a way unfit for the discussion. I think people respond better in private as it is my belief there is a certain performance element to publicly commenting that can cause inflated defensiveness. At that point, if they wish to clear something up on the thread they may feel more comfortable doing it knowing their sometimes vulnerable issues are not being splayed out for the world to see.
    I will see how this goes.

    I appreciate your insight on this.

  24. Pisaquaririse, I do the same thing on my blog 🙂 If decide not to publish a comment because it is less than respectful of other women commenting, I’ll e-mail them and explain. Mostly, women e-mail back saying they agree that their comment was out of line. I’ve also noticed that ‘performance element to publicly commenting’. Ideally, it would bring out the best in us…

  25. Nectarine, I’ve thought about this post and what you’ve written and I’d like to reply here seeing that this post is public.

    I’m glad that you’ve expressed some of the things that bother you because it’s prompted this discussion amongst other things. At the same time, a couple of things you’ve said make me uncomfortable and I’d like to explain why.

    My impression is that you’d thought about stuff that bothered you about the internet “radfem” community – as you say – and that all in all you’d decided to stop blogging as nectarine (as I said above, I hope you’ll stick around). When I read your post and comments above, I see a list of things that have contributed to you feeling that way.

    My concerns are mostly to do with the google group you mention and conversations or comments you refer to that took place within the group. As the google group is not a public forum, persons reading this post and its comments will not have access to what was actually said.

    Some of the comments you make above are criticisms of Debs’ character. The only way for Debs to properly answer your criticisms would be to publish the content of the google group, which, really, is out of the question. I do think that we should give others a chance to respond when we are saying things about them – especially when what we say is damaging to them and/or their reputation – and I think it should not be done under terms that puts the other party at an unfair disadvantage.

    I’m uncomfortable with anyone – and for any reason – taking anything from a non-public forum and re-posting it in a public space without prior permission. The refences that you make to the google group are negative and, I think, do not represented the comments and conversations that took place. I feel betrayed by this.

  26. Oh my goddess, Zenobia, you can’t be this stupid, surely? I didn’t call Nectarine childish because she wanted disabled access. I called her childish because, having confirmed that there is disabled access, she then has a flounce and decides she’s not going anyway! (Which she is after all, now)

  27. Zenobia, I have a comment to make, along the lines of what V said, about your ‘99.99999999999%’ figure.

    You wrote about the Million Women Rise on the Mind The Gap blog and you said that the march was ‘largely young, white and middle-class’. You were not at the march but you saw some of the pictures. What you didn’t do was make sure you found out about the march and its organisation before you wrote about it.

    The Million Women March was organised by black and ethnic minority women. By criticising the march for being ‘largely young, white and middle-class’ you certainly appear to be anti-racist but the fact of the matter is that your post erases the black and ethnic minority women who made it all happen and it erases what they achieved.

    ‘Young, white and middle-class’ is not the truth about feminism. Anyone claiming it is so is saying something about the circles she moves in.

    As for the way you are speaking to Debs, it’s not OK with me.

  28. Zenobia Says:

    V – I definitely see your point, in fact I’ve been trying to think of a better way to express what I’m trying to get at – mainly that the mainstream portrayal of feminism does make it come across as something very white and middle-class, and the feminists who get listened to by the media are white, middle-class ones. Although my whole point is generally to highlight that they don’t actually represent the majority of feminists, that there are a lot of people doing a whole lot of work that never gets recognised.

    Arantxa – how about the way Debs is speaking to Nectarine and to myself? I’m not the one starting comments with ‘Oh dear, how childish’ and ‘You really can’t be that stupid, can you?’.

  29. Sadassa Says:

    i dont think you get more working class or other-than-white feminists to stand up and be counted if the more affluent and privileged members are under constant attack. im scared a lot of the time to say anything at all, to be honest with you – “if the educated and well spoken women can be torn up so easily what the fuck is gonna happen to me”, is where i usually end up. i think, there is taking something someone says and making a criticism, offering an alternative viewpoint, showing what is wrong with the one originially expressed – thats all good, positive stuff i think – and then there’s saying, oh fuck them all, theyre all *insert stereotype here*, with no chance to work stuff out. i see you doing the latter, a lot, which isnt useful to those of us who are on the ‘margins’ any more than it is to those in the spotlight – its not giving us any pointers or explanations or solidarity, its not even moving the spotlight, its just tearing someone else down.

    i get that youre snippy in this discussion right here because nectarine is your mate, i get that reaction totally. but i am fed up of seeing you write us all off, it makes me feel like you think youre better than the rest of us and always always right, its infuriating. i dont want to be on shitty terms with you at all, but i cant bear being patronised and ignored like that. if we can draw a line right here and try and move forward actually listening to each other – all of us – that would be grand.

    You know, your criticism of me over at Cruella’s actually rang very true, and I think a lot of my frustrations with the state of feminism right now probably come off as generalisations. I certainly never meant to imply I was right about everything or discourage people from disagreeing. If anything, my tone probably stems from the fact that I see a lot of feminists who are more privileged than me, or otherwise have advantages over me where they get listened to more easily, claiming to speak for all feminists, or worse, all women, and they do drown out the rest of us, which is one of the main things I object to. Then again, I’ve also felt talked down to by some of these women on account of being a mere secretary, as opposed to someone with a fantastic high-powered career, or for a bunch of other reasons.

    It’s certainly not a feeling I would like to inflict on anyone else, in fact that was the exact opposite of my intention, so if that’s been the case I’d like to offer an apology.

    That said, my questions to Debs in this thread were genuine questions, I do think she holds people to standards that she doesn’t live up to herself, and I do think her initial comment was completely out of line. I guess, considering all the bullying, backstabbing and bitching that goes on in the feminist blogosphere, I’d have to ask, aside from V’s criticisms which I’m definitely taking on board, why you guys are having a go at me, exactly, I mean I generally go out of my way to avoid all of that.

  30. Zenobia Says:

    Oh crumbs, wrong identity, that was me.

  31. zenobia – i just want to say that i accept your explanation up there, and your apology, and im glad we’ve talked it out really.

    i dont think everyone is having a go at you, so much as (I and arantxa) are expressing exasperation with the generalisations youve been promoting, and pointing out how some of the stuff youve said has really been unhelpful, or even misleading and erasing. its not like youre the first or only person who has ever done that, and i wouldnt have even bothered to comment on it if i didnt think that you might be the sort of person who would listen and talk the problem out. im feeling good and positive that you have listened, and also that you explained a bit how you also have felt patronised and marginalised, i think that gives us something to ally over, rather than be in opposition.

    so, no grudges held, from my end, i hope that we’re alright with each other.

    on this thread – would it be possible for everyone involved to please avoid saying anything personal, making any personal attacks, on anyone else? nectarine has said she is away for a few days and i doubt very much she needs the stress of coming back and having to wade through a bunch of nasty stuff here. actually i think we could all do without the stress of gratuitous hostility.

  32. Zenobia Says:

    One thing I would like to say in defense of my post about Million Women Rise, I was more expressing concerns about the way the event was being reported rather than the event itself. There’s this atmosphere around big feminist events that you have to be completely positive about them and think ‘yay, feminism happened!’, and when someone had a less than satisfactory experience, it gets completely sidelined, whereas it’s the kind of thing we should be learning from.

    Also, if the event was arranged by ethnic minority women’s groups, then surely it’s even worse that the photos in the reports are largely of white women and someone got called a black bitch. Still, Arantxa, you’re probably right that I should have checked on that – considering people like Feminist Fightback and FAF were the ones debating over the manifesto, I assumed they were the main organisers.

    Still, I’m kind of glad you guys called me out, because I was concerned about those things while writing.

  33. I’m so sorry, love. If it makes you feel any better, I have over 30 years of activism under my belt, and I’ve been repeatedly called all of those things, too. Some of the people who said that to me weren’t even born when I started in feminism, yet feel they can judge me.

    A community that has to rigidly enforce groupthink (like the
    USSR) is on its way OUT… eventually. The fact that they have to be so ruthless in their enforcement, is a sign they know their authority is slipping. The house of cards is falling, albeit slowly.

  34. Hey, I’m sorry that you’ve decided to stop blogging here. Silly person that I am, I only just checked your blog! Let me know where your new blog is, I would be interested in reading it.

    I know how you feel re. the comment stormcloud left at pisaquarisise’s blog. It does seem that there is a lot of narrow mindedness with some people, and for this reason, I also feel frustrated and don’t really know how to deal with it. It’s difficult to move forward when you feel as if you can’t express yourself openly on your blog because someone might say ‘no, that’s wrong’ or insult you personally, if you dare to question something. Anyway, I sympathise, although it does sound like there have been a lot of misunderstandings, from all sides, really. I’m glad everyone seems to have worked things out, kinda xx

  35. There is a tested and reliable formula for creating narrowmindedness in people. Here it is:

    1) Write a critical post about someone

    2) Hang out and be best buddies with the bloggers trashing radfems – in a sustained war that lasted six months, but latterly just radbashing posts every day or two.

    3) Make sure you hide the evidence of your original attack by cloaking your blog so no one can see the evidence.

    4) Act really really really surprised when person mentioned in 1) recalls your name in relation to 1) and 2).

    This formula is failsafe. Many have used it very successfully.

    But you can also go the route of others:

    5) Just make stuff up about person 1) that didn’t happen, because it has become very fashionable to 1)-bash.

  36. philomela Says:

    stormy seriously what the fuck are you wittering on about?

  37. Jesus Stormy…and you accuse other people of being bullies and not letting shit go? For real? Holy christ. You are honestly un-fucking-believable. And you want to talk about making shit up? For real? And talk about things that didn’t happen? Too fucking rich. You are twice the shit-stirring-can’t let anything go-trashes people everywhere-makes shit up to suit them type of gal that you Claim I am. It really is fucking pathetic.

    So, who you gonna terrorize and threaten now? Philomela? Someone else who has fled the fold? Me? Again…though I will say, I would advise against that. Some other random person who really would just prefer it if you ceased to exisit in their personal little corner of the universe…I mean really…you show up here HOW many months later? You can’t seem to type a response on a blog without mentioning at least one of the people supposedly involved in that little treaty, spewing shit and making up some more to follow that…and then you say other people have no life?

    Smirk. Yeah, my “supposedly manicured” fingernails are flipping you off, right now, at this very moment!

    And this? “Make sure you hide the evidence of your original attack by cloaking your blog so no one can see the evidence.” This coming from one of the dread collective hive queens of the deep, deep super secret bowels of genderberg where a bunch of lies (woo, marketing front) run rampant? FUCKING PRICELESS!

    It really would be funny if it wasn’t so fucking sad, and, oh yeah, if it didn’t shread all over the emotions of people who used to think you were a friend and ally….there’s a life-experience I’m glad I missed…I mean, it sounds a lot like having a mother who just loved to shame and was never satisfied…and yep, I sure as hell can’t stop you from fucking around and bullying or attempting to “slag off” or intimidate some folk, but yep, I can observe it and keep a running commentary…after all, I’ve been there first hand, seen how you work, and I’m sure as hell not afraid or intimidated by you any more.

    Oh, and if you do decide to threaten me again? Well Stormy…it won’t be pretty. And that is not a threat, merely a fact.

  38. Hasn’t stormy been known to hide blog posts in the past? I mean, sure, she reposted them because they’d already been immortalized by other people.

  39. nectarine Says:

    okay stormy, I made my old blog pubic again so everyone can see you are lying about me writing a critical post about anyone (not that i wouldnt have been well within my rights over the disgusting way you treated laura and Ren)

  40. Oh, this is fun. Hey, Stormy, you know something: I’ve been getting the very strong impression over the last…while, from various conversations here and there, that, well, how to put this delicately. Can’t do it. Basically: that no one can stand your ass. I don’t mean as a “radfem,” obviously it goes without saying that no one who -isn’t- in your little hivemind or environs sees you as anything more than a particularly loathsome crank; I mean, -within- your circles: that basically, no one -actually- can stand your ass. You, personally, that is.

    Which, I can’t imagine why that would be? what with your charming habit of interrogating and bullying people and your generally lovely demeanor; still, at this point, you know, I’d think maybe you want to worry less about nectarine, and start worrying about, well…you.

    unless of course having people eventually get fed up with your bullshit and turn and render you the way you’ve been doing them would just feed your sense of righteous martyrdom, in which case by all means, continue the way you’ve been going. No skin off -my- ass, heaven knows. I’ll just be over here with my pals and the popcorn, ‘k?

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