I know how you feel re. the comment stormcloud left at pisaquarisise’s blog. It does seem that there is a lot of narrow mindedness with some people, and for this reason, I also feel frustrated and don’t really know how to deal with it. It’s difficult to move forward when you feel as if you can’t express yourself openly on your blog because someone might say ‘no, that’s wrong’ or insult you personally, if you dare to question something. Anyway, I sympathise, although it does sound like there have been a lot of misunderstandings, from all sides, really. I’m glad everyone seems to have worked things out, kinda xx

A community that has to rigidly enforce groupthink (like the
USSR) is on its way OUT… eventually. The fact that they have to be so ruthless in their enforcement, is a sign they know their authority is slipping. The house of cards is falling, albeit slowly.

Also, if the event was arranged by ethnic minority women’s groups, then surely it’s even worse that the photos in the reports are largely of white women and someone got called a black bitch. Still, Arantxa, you’re probably right that I should have checked on that - considering people like Feminist Fightback and FAF were the ones debating over the manifesto, I assumed they were the main organisers.

Still, I’m kind of glad you guys called me out, because I was concerned about those things while writing.

i dont think everyone is having a go at you, so much as (I and arantxa) are expressing exasperation with the generalisations youve been promoting, and pointing out how some of the stuff youve said has really been unhelpful, or even misleading and erasing. its not like youre the first or only person who has ever done that, and i wouldnt have even bothered to comment on it if i didnt think that you might be the sort of person who would listen and talk the problem out. im feeling good and positive that you have listened, and also that you explained a bit how you also have felt patronised and marginalised, i think that gives us something to ally over, rather than be in opposition.

so, no grudges held, from my end, i hope that we’re alright with each other.

on this thread - would it be possible for everyone involved to please avoid saying anything personal, making any personal attacks, on anyone else? nectarine has said she is away for a few days and i doubt very much she needs the stress of coming back and having to wade through a bunch of nasty stuff here. actually i think we could all do without the stress of gratuitous hostility.

i get that youre snippy in this discussion right here because nectarine is your mate, i get that reaction totally. but i am fed up of seeing you write us all off, it makes me feel like you think youre better than the rest of us and always always right, its infuriating. i dont want to be on shitty terms with you at all, but i cant bear being patronised and ignored like that. if we can draw a line right here and try and move forward actually listening to each other - all of us - that would be grand.

You know, your criticism of me over at Cruella’s actually rang very true, and I think a lot of my frustrations with the state of feminism right now probably come off as generalisations. I certainly never meant to imply I was right about everything or discourage people from disagreeing. If anything, my tone probably stems from the fact that I see a lot of feminists who are more privileged than me, or otherwise have advantages over me where they get listened to more easily, claiming to speak for all feminists, or worse, all women, and they do drown out the rest of us, which is one of the main things I object to. Then again, I’ve also felt talked down to by some of these women on account of being a mere secretary, as opposed to someone with a fantastic high-powered career, or for a bunch of other reasons.

It’s certainly not a feeling I would like to inflict on anyone else, in fact that was the exact opposite of my intention, so if that’s been the case I’d like to offer an apology.

That said, my questions to Debs in this thread were genuine questions, I do think she holds people to standards that she doesn’t live up to herself, and I do think her initial comment was completely out of line. I guess, considering all the bullying, backstabbing and bitching that goes on in the feminist blogosphere, I’d have to ask, aside from V’s criticisms which I’m definitely taking on board, why you guys are having a go at me, exactly, I mean I generally go out of my way to avoid all of that.

Arantxa - how about the way Debs is speaking to Nectarine and to myself? I’m not the one starting comments with ‘Oh dear, how childish’ and ‘You really can’t be that stupid, can you?’.

You wrote about the Million Women Rise on the Mind The Gap blog and you said that the march was ‘largely young, white and middle-class’. You were not at the march but you saw some of the pictures. What you didn’t do was make sure you found out about the march and its organisation before you wrote about it.

The Million Women March was organised by black and ethnic minority women. By criticising the march for being ‘largely young, white and middle-class’ you certainly appear to be anti-racist but the fact of the matter is that your post erases the black and ethnic minority women who made it all happen and it erases what they achieved.

‘Young, white and middle-class’ is not the truth about feminism. Anyone claiming it is so is saying something about the circles she moves in.

As for the way you are speaking to Debs, it’s not OK with me.